Gavin Pratt | From Down Under to the Top: Coaching Careers in Combat Sports

Coaching elite mixed martial arts (MMA) athletes demands creativity, adaptability, and a global mindset. Gavin Pratt, Senior Director of Strength and Conditioning at the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) Performance Institute, shares insights from his international career. Pratt reflects on preparing athletes for the Chinese National Games and managing strength and conditioning at the world’s first MMA academy in Shanghai. Applying a systems-based approach, he tackles MMA’s unique challenges — including unpredictable training schedules, diverse personalities and backgrounds, session intensity, and load management. Driven by passion rather than prestige, Pratt emphasizes he’s never been a "tracksuit hunter" — someone motivated primarily by titles or status. He highlights MMA’s innovation potential, especially when using individualized technology based on athletes' force or velocity deficiencies. Pratt contrasts the United States’ expertise in speed, agility, and change of direction with Australia’s early adoption of sports science. He also provides valuable interview advice to help coaches communicate effectively under pressure. Discover practical strategies to elevate your coaching impact.

Connect with Gavin via email at gpratt@ufc.com and on Instagram: @gav_pratt | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs and LinkedIn: @ericmcmahoncscs  

If this episode sparked your interest in MMA and other combat sports, take the next step by joining the NSCA Combat Sports Special Interest Group (SIG) on LinkedIn. Connect with a global network of professionals shaping the future of performance.

Inspired by Nick Barringer’s recommendation? Register early to save on 2025 NSCA Tactical Annual Training. Catch Barringer’s talk on performance bloodwork and more nuggets of wisdom.

“You're not an electrician whose license only works in a certain state of your country and you have to stay there for your whole career. We have an opportunity to see the world, see different experiences, and understand even our own industry better.” 7:20

“It's getting out of your comfort zone, no matter how uncomfortable that is. That's probably up to the individual. But there's a journey as part of any career. You can't skip the queue. There's a process to accumulating knowledge and experience. So you might have all the Xs and Os down pat, but even the inexperience might not allow you to express that knowledge as well as maybe you could. That's part of the journey, as well, learning what works and what doesn't for different athletes and different colleagues, even. It's part of the process, and you can't rush it.” 10:40

“We need to find people that understand the science, but have an even better understanding of how they can communicate that simply and effectively to colleagues and athletes. That is the skill set of being an S&C coach ultimately. […] You can have all the knowledge of the theory, but if it doesn't come from here and be expressed from a really simplistic standpoint, then it's not as valuable as what it could be.” 23:50

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[00:00:02.72] Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast, season nine, episode eight.

[00:00:07.91] It's getting out of your comfort zone, no matter how uncomfortable that is. That's probably up to the individual. But there's a journey as part of any career. You can't skip the queue. There's a process to accumulating knowledge and experience. So you might have all the Xs and Os down pat, but even the inexperience might not allow you to express that knowledge as well as maybe you could.

[00:00:35.40] That's part of the journey, as well, learning what works and what doesn't for different athletes and different colleagues, even. It's part of the process, and you can't rush it.

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[00:00:47.36] This is the NSCA's Coaching Podcast, where we talk to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know but probably didn't learn in school. There's strength and conditioning, and then there's everything else.

[00:00:58.22] This is the NSCA Coaching Podcast. I'm Eric McMahon. MMA is one of the most exciting sports out there. And today, we'll get a closer look. We're joined by Senior Director of Strength and Conditioning for the UFC Performance Institute Gavin Pratt.

[00:01:12.84] Gav, I got to connect with you at the 2025 NSCA Coaches Conference in January. You were a presenter at the event. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:21.48] Thanks, Eric. Thanks for having me. And yeah, it was a great conference. I really enjoyed being there. It was my first one presenting, and hopefully get to do it again. It was awesome.

[00:01:30.26] Yeah, it was an awesome time. We've had Duncan and other presenters from UFC before. That was your first time coming in, from the international side, to the NSCA. How was that experience for you?

[00:01:43.77] Yeah, really good. Really nice to see how another association does it. Obviously, I'm associated with the Australian version, predominantly in my past. And so coming over to America and being involved with the NSCA has been a really cool opportunity to see how it works and see how these conferences build off each other to push the industry forward.

[00:02:04.87] So you're based in the States now, at the UFC PI in Las Vegas. But you were at some of the other UFC training sites internationally before this. How'd you get into working in MMA? And what led you towards UFC?

[00:02:21.10] Yeah, I didn't do it the normal way. I can definitely say that much. [LAUGHS] I guess to cut the story short, I ended up getting my master's in exercise science in 2014 from Edith Cowan. But I had worked in the industry for about 10 years before I had even got that master's. So I was in the general populations, working with amateur athletes, amateur Australian rules football, or semiprofessional Australian rules football.

[00:02:48.38] Because that's the sport I used to play. And then moved to the other side of Australia and worked there in a similar field. That's where I got my master's. And then after I got my master's, I got asked, about two days before Christmas, if I'd like to move to China and work under EXOS, working with the Olympic-based sports in Shanghai, China.

[00:03:10.66] And I hadn't applied for the job. This job had come to me through a friend of mine who'd been offered the job, and he suggested me. So it was a pretty strange email to receive when you hadn't gone for a job. And they're saying, hey, man, do you want to move to China? So we had a fairly sleepless Christmas and New Year's period that year.

[00:03:27.34] And so we packed up the business that I had, and my wife and I moved to China. We were there for about two years, working with Olympic-based sports for the Chinese National Games, which is the biggest tournament outside of the Olympics. All the provinces basically compete against each other. There's around 10,000 athletes that go into the games.

[00:03:46.75] So we were helping prepare Shanghai. And amongst that, obviously, you've got national-level athletes that you're working with. And then that contract finished when we had a really successful games. Usually, they go offline for about a year, let the athletes chill out for a bit. So then I joined one of the provincial surfing teams.

[00:04:06.94] And we were looking to develop a program to help drive surfing into the Olympics, which has been successful now. And we were looking to do that on a river wave, which, if you look on YouTube, is called the Silver Dragon. And it's a wave that breaks based on the full moon and the tides. And it breaks for four to seven days, every time there's a full moon.

[00:04:28.27] And it's one swell line that wraps up around this river for three and a half hours. And so you get on your jet skis, and you surf this wave. It's the most incredible thing you'll ever see. And that was going to be our home base, and I was pretty excited about that opportunity. Unfortunately, funding kind of got a bit political, and it got taken away from us.

[00:04:47.47] So I ended up living in a hotel for eight months, pretty much unpaid, while we were trying to get this thing off the ground. And then that's at the same time that the UFC started building their facility in Shanghai. So I had coaching skills in Mandarin. I had experience in China. I had experience as an S&C coach.

[00:05:05.40] I went for the role and was fortunate enough to get the job. And so I worked as the manager of strength and conditioning for the first academy MMA program in the world there and started developing that. And that's where a lot of my systems-based approaches came into fruition. And then I got the job here in Vegas, got pushed up to Vegas when-- most people in the NSCA will know Bo Sandoval, a great human and an even better coach.

[00:05:28.98] And he's a great guy. And he moved on to Texas A&M. And that opportunity presented itself when I was about to quit because of COVID. I was stuck in China for almost two years, away from my wife, while we were trying to get back and forth during that time. And so I actually messaged Duncan, said, I think I've had enough.

[00:05:46.47] Two days later, he said, Bo's actually leaving. Do you want to come to Vegas? So that job came up for me. And I've been here for the last three years and thoroughly enjoy it.

[00:05:57.50] Wow. I mean, it sounds like that was a really challenging time, maybe personally and professionally, when you were working in China. But one thing that comes to mind-- and I think a lot of coaches can connect with this-- this is how our field happens sometimes. You get a call. Next thing you know, you're on a plane to somewhere you've never been, maybe a culture you've never experienced, a sport you've never worked with, whatever it may be.

[00:06:23.93] What does it take? You're a coach. You want to pursue excellence in this field, and then you get an opportunity like that. And there's some fear. You're going to China. You never worked there before. That's not where you're from. That's not where you're comfortable.

[00:06:41.22] How do you overcome that and do what you do and bring strength and conditioning with you and really champion the field? What's your process with that?

[00:06:51.73] It's passion. I'm not about the tracksuit hunter. Right? You're doing it because you're excited about it. I talk about this a lot with my mates, particularly the ones I have in China. Because we're all there together in an expat community, and we're like, what an amazing opportunity to be in an industry where you have the opportunity to see different cultures and get paid to do so, to really immerse yourself in those cultures.

[00:07:19.90] And you're not an electrician whose license only works in a certain state of your country and you have to stay there for your whole career. We have an opportunity to see the world, see different experiences, and understand even our own industry better. How Chinese athletes and coaches go about their S&C is vastly different to how we might look at it, but that's OK.

[00:07:41.66] What have I taken away from those learnings and understandings is how they do it. Because they still won gold medals. So what's our play? And how important are we in that wheel, the cog in the wheel vibe? And how important are we? And what can we do to increase the probability of success for these athletes?

[00:08:00.79] That helps when you see different cultures go about it differently. And for me, it was always about following what I was interested in, what I was passionate about. And then these roles, I guess, came up. I think it's really important to remind people as well. When I was in China, in a hotel room, not getting paid, I was 40 years old.

[00:08:23.41] It's not like I'm a 23-year-old. I've got a wife. I'm just like, man, I care about this role. I really want this to pay off because I think it's a cool opportunity, and I believe it's the right thing to do for myself and my family. But right now, it sucks. And what am I doing with myself?

[00:08:40.43] But there was a passion there, right? So ended up, this is where I am. But you can't have told many people that that was the journey that was going to get me here.

[00:08:49.56] Yeah. This connects on so many levels. On one end, at the NSCA, we want the field to be better for everyone. We don't want coaches to have to go volunteer and work for free or live in a hotel in a foreign country, away from their family. I think we can all agree that that's not the ideal path.

[00:09:09.01] There's so many coaches that have those stories of-- and other professions too-- where people go above and beyond, and they believe in something, and they go for it. And that means a little bit of personal sacrifice, sometimes a lot of personal sacrifice. And that's one of the challenges. Maybe it's just where we're at as an industry right now.

[00:09:29.95] I do like to think we have improved a lot as an industry. But you're highlighting it. I mean, we do have a long way to go. And we've made up a lot of ground in the last few years. Another thing that comes to mind is we see this with students. You get out of school. You're coaching. You're experiencing the field.

[00:09:52.45] And you might need a couple different internships or experiences to just figure out what your philosophy is, what your training style is, where you operate effectively. You mentioned things are a lot different training in China than other parts of the world. I think coaches can realize that by experiencing different programs and things.

[00:10:18.40] And that's a really good thing that we do champion as a field, is going out, getting different experiences. Maybe one of the sacrifices with that is you have to get out of your comfort zone and go somewhere. My first job was in Montana, and I'm not from that part of the country, so that was a really outside of my comfort zone experience. But it led to better things.

[00:10:40.09] Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that's what it is. It's getting out of your comfort zone, no matter how uncomfortable that is. That's probably up to the individual. But there's a journey as part of any career. You can't skip the queue. There's a process to accumulating knowledge and experience.

[00:11:01.65] So you might have all the Xs and Os down pat, but even the inexperience might not allow you to express that knowledge as well as maybe you could. That's part of the journey, as well, learning what works and what doesn't for different athletes and different colleagues, even. It's part of the process, and you can't rush it.

[00:11:20.57] So yeah, we have a combat sports special interest group at the NSCA. This is a newer effort within our SIG program where we're talking about MMA athletes, UFC. A lot of the information we're getting is coming out of UFC. What are some of the unique challenges of working with that sport?

[00:11:43.22] I think that my first thought goes to training schedules. A lot of the time, they're independent contractors. So they make up their own training schedule, which is sometimes horrendous. We've had athletes that train five to six times a day. And, like, there goes all your training load manuals.

[00:12:02.76] It doesn't exist. But that's a Type A personality. And most of the time, that's the type of people we have in the sport. So again, how do you adjust as an S&C coach to that? Are you going to necessarily change a Type A personality? Or are you going to try and adapt the best way possible?

[00:12:19.46] I'd say that's the first one and understanding what a high, moderate, and low-intensity session actually is. I feel like a lot of them tend to grind it out on that moderate to high level, where it's hard, but it's not maximal. And there's a distinct difference in terms of pushing your envelope or pushing the ceiling up by going to maximal but not all the time.

[00:12:43.15] To be honest, I love working in MMA. I think it's my favorite sport to work in because the athletes will run through a brick wall if you ask them to. It's not only about the athletes themselves wanting to push themselves. It's therefore up to the S&C coach to go, we can do that. But I could also potentially pull that back a little bit if needed.

[00:13:05.03] It's the different cultures we have to approach. Because people are coming from different backgrounds, meaning they've got different experiences with strength and conditioning. Some athletes in the UFC have never done strength and conditioning, which is fascinating when you think of professional sport. So we have a really low training age sometimes when it comes to S&C.

[00:13:24.04] So we might be going back to high school basics of teaching a squat pattern. And then there's another athlete in the same hour who you're doing Olympic lift derivatives with. And that's all in the same hour that you have with a professional athlete. So it's kind of cool like that. I also think-- and I say this to the staff here a lot in S&C-- what an opportunity to be creative in a sport that hasn't really got much background information.

[00:13:51.71] We can be really creative in our prescriptions because we're trying to find out what increases the probability of success for the athletes. We don't really know yet, and there's so much chaos in the sport of MMA. It's such a cool, experimental ground where we can go, ooh, let's try out this test or this exercise and see if that actually works during off camp.

[00:14:11.30] And it does. Now we've got a staple part of programming and prescriptions, if we needed it as such, such as power endurance. Let's play around with this idea. Hey, that worked really well. We can fall back on that if another athlete requires that adaptation.

[00:14:25.51] That's awesome. Technology learning curve is really high right now in sport performance. And you mentioned you might have an athlete come to you that's never done any strength and conditioning. And on the other side, you have someone that you'd put in the advanced category.

[00:14:41.86] Do you feel like those prescriptions are totally different with the amount of resources you have at UFC PI? Do you scale those based on the athlete you have?

[00:14:55.02] Absolutely. I guess two points for this regarding the Vegas facility, where we're working with rostered UFC athletes. I guess, think of it more like a personal training studio, in a sense, where we've got individuals working with us. And I might have one to four athletes within an hour.

[00:15:14.05] So that's the environment we have here. When we look at the academy programs, we're looking at, basically, two groups, whether it's off camp and fight camp. But within those groups, there's differences in terms of what we-- . So different types of athletes, whether they're force deficient, well balanced, or velocity deficient. So in Vegas, I might have an athlete who really responds well to velocity-based training, so I will utilize that to be very specific with their programming.

[00:15:44.82] And then there might be the same person doing their own program, where, again, I'm just looking at basic movement patterns. And it's got nothing to do with velocity or anything like that. So whereas with the academy, for an example, we might have different groups. So we've got a group on the gym floor, but we've got force-deficient, well-balanced, and velocity-deficient athletes.

[00:16:06.66] They might all be using some variation of the bench press. And we'll use velocity-based training to make sure that we program specific speeds or velocity outcomes for each of those based on what adaptation we're searching for. So it can be used as a load prescriber.

[00:16:24.45] It could be used as a motivator if they're really into numbers. It really does depend. And that's, again, the beauty of S&C within the UFC Performance Institute, is we're very much trying to individualize it, even if it's in a team environment.

[00:16:38.60] I like that concept of individualizing technology prescriptions. I think when you read a research article, VBT or a force plate, those technologies, it's very black and white. You use it to do this, and it accomplishes this goal. And it's valid, it's reliable, and that's what we do. But in reality, you have an athlete that has a specific need.

[00:17:02.70] And it might just be a coaching cue that you're needing that technology to drill in a point about their exercise technique or whatever it is. I actually saw some studies years ago from NASA where they were using linear encoders or VBT devices, but they weren't using them for VBT. They were using them just to standardize squat depth in a research study. And we all know different measurements exist on these technologies, but it's something that they were catering that technology, before VBT was really popular, for a specific purpose.

[00:17:40.82] And then years later, we see it being used for putting numbers to power metrics and speed and velocity. And so I think it goes back to what you said about that creative process that you can have in this sport. You can do a lot of different things. I've even seen you guys connecting GymAware units up to landmine devices.

[00:18:02.80] Yeah. Actually, just on that, Eric, we've switched from the landmine punch throw for the upper-body force-velocity profiling because there's a lot of lower-body involvement. Our sports science team, Dr. Roman Fomin and Brett Grelle, have created a half-kneeling jammer punch throw. And it's a load-velocity profile.

[00:18:23.87] And we use the GymAware for it. And with the GymAware, the two main readings we're looking at might be something like peak velocity of the throw. But at the same time, we'll put the dip measurement on there. And if the dip is above 0.02, it means they utilize too much countermovement on the throw. So it's like an illegal test. And so that way, we're making sure that the test is reliable and valid each time that they do the throw.

[00:18:56.50] That's a really cool use right there. It's like the false step in sprinting. You don't want to step backwards. Well, you can actually use that. So the better we get with maximizing our technology and knowing all the different functions that our technology can help us with, it does help us be creative with our programming. That's really cool.

[00:19:18.16] So digging into your international background, what are some of the biggest differences, maybe pros, maybe cons, you see with strength and conditioning in the US versus internationally?

[00:19:29.68] I think with regards to the US, a lot of the strength and conditioning component is, for obvious reasons, based around the major sports that you have in the country. So I would say that what I've seen is things like your speed, agility, change, direction, insights are really, really strong and something that a lot of the world can learn from. I think in terms of just coming from Australia, we have different sports that are part of our major sporting cohorts.

[00:20:04.36] And so a lot of the things that we do around running or strength work are related to the sports that we work in. And so it's really cool to see the slight changes not just in terms of prescription, but in terms of methodological approaches, systematic approaches. There's slight changes throughout all of it.

[00:20:26.26] And I think within regards to Australia, I've always explained it like, we might have five good gymnasts that are Olympic level, and if we hurt one of them, we've got four. Whereas in China and probably America, there's a lot more to draw from. So I think Australia has really pushed itself to get good at the sport science, S&C integration.

[00:20:51.31] We utilize a lot of objective measures to make our decisions moving forward because we don't have the ability to mess any athlete up-- not that anyone wants to do that. But I think that's why we've pushed that way. And with the history of the AIS, that's something that they sort of started kicking up maybe back in the late '80s. And it's kind of flowed through to today's day and age for us. So very objective driven in Australia in terms of the normative data and the numbers.

[00:21:20.07] Yeah. And I remember that. I know you mentioned Edith Cowan. And a lot of research came out of there around the time that the Olympics was going to Australia. I remember the-- what was it-- the Smith machine, bench press throw, and all the research that was coming out. Maybe a little bit of a precursor for some of the VBT research that came out later on.

[00:21:42.42] Some really cool research coming out of that part of the world. We hear about people getting their PhDs and master's degrees internationally and being exposed to different sports. I know some folks that worked for Surfing Australia. Never once did I think I could be a strength and conditioning coach in a sport like surfing.

[00:22:02.87] But huge opportunities international. Obviously, everywhere you go, there's going to be different experiences. And I think that's maybe one of the themes people will get from this episode, is that you can go out and get experience in a lot of different areas of the field. You're working at a sport that really doesn't have much scientific background before UFC really got started and was building that.

[00:22:29.07] So it's proof that maybe that's where opportunity is, finding an uncharted area of the field. I mean, we just had the Cirque du Soleil performance team on the podcast not too long ago. I bet no one was thinking that was an opportunity at one point, and now it is.

[00:22:50.27] So I'll ask you, what are some of the things you see on horizon for the profession? Where do you think opportunity is as a field? I know you're right in that UFC space. But you're seeing a lot, and you're exposed to a lot. Do you see any budding opportunities for people that are getting into the profession?

[00:23:12.80] I guess in terms of jobs, that's a tough one. I don't know where that's heading, and it's certainly getting more and more competitive. But what I would say to that is what will make people stand out. I feel like we're shifting back towards the requirement of having on-floor coaches.

[00:23:32.45] So we've gone through this phase of that's what we were. We're just S&C coaches. And then technology and science really came to the forefront and took away a little bit, has taken away a little bit from the ability to coach people and connect with people. And I think now we're starting to see that.

[00:23:49.34] It's like, all right, we need to find people that understand the science, but have an even better understanding of how they can communicate that simply and effectively to colleagues and athletes. That is the skill set of being an S&C coach ultimately.

[00:24:06.13] Absolutely.

[00:24:06.34] You can have all the knowledge of the theory, but if it doesn't come from here and be expressed from a really simplistic standpoint, then it's not as valuable as what it could be.

[00:24:20.20] Yeah. When we were developing the sports science program, one of the quotes that came from some of those meetings is, the coach is always the delivery mechanism. You could say that, on some level, that's the sport coach. But in the performance space, it's often the strength and conditioning coach that is bringing it to the level of the athlete, whatever that is.

[00:24:45.07] As complex as the information or as simple as the information may be, there's a motivational aspect to it. And catering, communications, and, really, developmentally appropriate instruction, and exercise selection, all these different areas, that's our bread and butter as coaches. So it's a really-- I like that you highlight maybe the pendulum is starting to swing back.

[00:25:10.01] And on that data technology side, one observation I'm seeing is, as we get-- we're all analytical-minded coaches today. You have to be. But as that data space grows and you realize, oh wow, to be a full-fledged data scientist or sports scientist or really go all in on that, I mean, that is a lot different than being an on-the-floor strength coach.

[00:25:35.52] So I do think some coaches were dabbling in that or are still dabbling in that. But then they realized, hey, I actually liked being on the floor. I liked coaching, and I liked communicating with people, and maybe that's my skill set, maybe more so than some of these data or technology areas. So it's a combination of being that generalist and being well versed across disciplines, but also advancing our abilities as instructors and teachers.

[00:26:04.98] Yeah. And just on that, we've been recently going through a few interviews for Vegas and Mexico. And it's something that popped up to me last night when I was thinking about it. I think one way to make yourself stand out as a young S&C coach in interviews, particularly online-- because it's really hard to get your personality across in those nerve-racking moments, I guess-- is you want to be answering your questions like you're a coach on the floor.

[00:26:34.36] If that's the gig you're going for, think about how you would explain a new exercise to an athlete, and that's how you should answer your questions-- succinctly, clearly, and make a punchy statement that's memorable for the interviewers to understand where you're getting at. Long-winded answers aren't getting you anywhere, not just with the people interviewing for the job, but for the athlete. The athlete's going to switch off, right?

[00:26:59.64] So in a roundabout way, what people are looking for-- and certainly, what we're looking for with those interviews-- is, how quickly can you give us a really clear, concise statement? Because that's ultimately what we're needing you for on the gym floor.

[00:27:12.78] I like that. That's really good. And great advice for young coaches and professionals that maybe haven't been through a lot of interviews yet. Yeah, this was fun, man. I like hearing about what you guys are doing in Las Vegas. Always incredible to see the facility you have and the staff you have there.

[00:27:35.54] It's impressive where MMA has gone, where UFC has gone. And it's a premier internship destination both on the strength and conditioning and sports science side. So for anyone who wants to reach out after the episode, connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

[00:27:57.26] I'd say probably more low key and, I guess, more casual is Instagram. You've got @gav_pratt on Instagram. So that's one way to do it. Or alternatively, I can send out my email, as well, which-- for the UFC-- is probably a good one. So I'm not sure if there's show notes that you can throw that into. But that would also be welcome.

[00:28:21.56] Will do. We'll add those in there. We'll add a link to the NSCA Combat Sports Special Interest Group, as well, if you're interested in joining that and being part of the conversation. So, Gav, thanks for being with us. All our listeners, thanks for tuning in. And special thanks to Sorinex Exercise Equipment. We appreciate their support.

[00:28:39.83] Hey. This is Nick Barringer. I want to tell everybody to go to the Tactical Annual event for the NSCA. It's an amazing event with amazing speakers. You do not want to miss it. Since I have been going, I always leave with a new nugget of wisdom. Go check it out.

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[00:28:57.59] This was the NSCA's Coaching Podcast. The National Strength and Conditioning Association was founded in 1978 by strength and conditioning coaches to share information, resources, and help advance the profession. Serving coaches for over 40 years, the NSCA is the trusted source for strength and conditioning professionals. Be sure to join us next time.

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